Vanessa Raymond Interview - Victory in Business
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Customer experience is different from customer service. Though they're both important, how people experience doing business with you and how they feel about doing business with us is often a direct reflection of how we made them feel. Were they frustrated? Were they inconvenienced? Did they feel appreciated? Well, my guest today is going to talk about being intentional and strategic in how you and your team show up for your customers. Get ready for a fascinating conversation with the multi-talented Vanessa Raymond.
David Avrin: Thanks, welcome to the podcast always appreciate everybody who listens enter those who want to watch the video version of this, you can just go to my website at David average calm or go to.
David Avrin: My YouTube channel all the past episodes are there as well, excited to talk to Vanessa room and full disclosure a great old friend.
David Avrin: her and her husband Bobby an event and i've been friends for for a very long time, really, really impressed with their business, but she has really a unique path herself.
David Avrin: I think it's an important topic today because we hear a lot about people's interactions and frustrations.
David Avrin: And sometimes it was the process and sometimes it was you know being pushed to use a qr code when a person is standing right in front of you, and they don't allow you to actually talk to a person.
David Avrin: But more it's also the perception they got how busy was that person how how much did they feel like they got somebody's undivided attention.
David Avrin: Well Vanessa is a pro at all about, first of all, a crazy great phenomenal background in music and business and entertainment Vanessa welcome to the show.
Vanessa Raymond: Thank you, David thanks for having me.
David Avrin: Tell us tell everybody i'm familiar with your background, but, but what you do and how you do it is a direct result of all those things that you've been through and the what you have the right to talk about.
David Avrin: and show some expertise as you guide others as well take everybody back to to your early childhood and growing up in South Africa.
Vanessa Raymond: Well, thank you, David, yes I born and raised in a very small industrial town that in South Africa about 80 kilometers south of Johannesburg anyone has an idea of where that might be.
Vanessa Raymond: I grew up in a wonderful family, I always said, I was, I was so blessed because beautiful family close family mom and dad both.
Vanessa Raymond: working parents my mom was an entrepreneur she ran her own business my dad was a science and math teacher and electronic electric engineer.
Vanessa Raymond: And pilot and so very colorful However, my family was always very musical to all my my parents and grandparents played instruments.
Vanessa Raymond: And my dad and his brother had a band so growing up, I grew up with a lot of music and I started dancing when I was three years old.
Vanessa Raymond: And it very quickly became my passion ballet modern jazz whatever anyway so fast forward time to go to college, I really, really my biggest dream in life was to be a performer and wanted to be onstage and wanted to perform, but in South Africa future.
David Avrin: performance, a lot of opportunities.
Vanessa Raymond: No, not really so of course you know, whenever people asked me what do you want to do when you grow up and I said I wanted to be a performer they were like, no, no, what do you really want to do right.
Vanessa Raymond: You want to do to make money.
Vanessa Raymond: Anyway, my dreams did come to I did end up going to college became a musical theater major performed in South Africa for quite a few years on various stages, but my dream was always you know for any performer it's broadway Western.
Vanessa Raymond: Where can we go bigger and better I always had a lot of interests too, so I also got qualified as a massage therapist in it and beautician at the time.
Vanessa Raymond: esthetician as well and I ran my own beauty business part time while I was performing full time, I guess, I had to.
David Avrin: be any get a lot of people who sort of have their vocation and their avocation the things they love to do.
David Avrin: But they still have to eat.
Vanessa Raymond: Right right right yeah.
Vanessa Raymond: So you find ways to do that, I always had multiple passions though so beauty business was always one of those.
Vanessa Raymond: However, I my dream was to leave the country and do bigger things and I was very lucky to got the I got the opportunity to do a cruise ship contract, which was.
Vanessa Raymond: Really, my ticket out of the country, because at the time it was really difficult to get any type of visa or any type of way to come to the United States, I had.
Vanessa Raymond: been show reels and whatever else but.
Vanessa Raymond: I had to come and show up for auditions etc fast forward.
Vanessa Raymond: My cruise ship gig brought me to the United States, we we rehearsed in Las Vegas, and that is how I set my feet on to American soil.
Vanessa Raymond: I continue to perform for another nine years, but while I was doing that I was always kind of entrepreneurial I created some info products that I was selling online and everything came back to confidence, confidence for women.
Vanessa Raymond: Confidence or for entrepreneurs now and but you know what really brought that together for me Dave is.
Vanessa Raymond: All the years and years in the dance studio learning the discipline of showing up being they're.
Vanessa Raymond: going from audition to audition when you get to know you get up you go again when you get the know you get up you go again and.
Vanessa Raymond: time off to time, no matter how down you feel because of all the nose, you know that every time you have to show up as your very best self.
Vanessa Raymond: To get that yes, and the yeses did come, I had a very successful career in the performance industry.
Vanessa Raymond: And at the same time also I went on to open my own fitness business which, as a dancer I became them a lot ease and a yoga instructor as well as a personal trainer.
Vanessa Raymond: So there were all these little chapters and working with clients in the velocity studio was a whole nother learning experience really learning how people operate learning.
Vanessa Raymond: What we as human beings have to do to really grow and build ourselves it's not just mental emotional it's physical as well to to work so well together, you have to integrate the positive thinking, the mindset, with the body.
David Avrin: We have, I think there's there's such a great yeah there's such a great.
David Avrin: connection and analogy, when you talked about the auditions and showing up again and again and again, but recognizing that it's not just going through the motions to win that part, which of course you equate to sales to win that sale it's it's showing a better each time isn't it.
Vanessa Raymond: it's recognizing what didn't work, the time before.
David Avrin: And and and giving your best pitch your best audition your best performance.
David Avrin: In a really competitive and crowded marketplace.
Vanessa Raymond: Right exactly and that's how I apply that to entrepreneurship now and to businesses and to any type of interview process that you are going to go through, and when it comes to recruiting people are going for an interview.
Vanessa Raymond: We have to take the notes, so in the phones industry we get notes, right after each performance or show.
Vanessa Raymond: It doesn't mean that when you in the show and the show is running there's always the note session after the performance, the director comes backstage and it gives you notes and you have to take your notes, if you don't apply those notes.
Vanessa Raymond: You get fined or you get fired.
David Avrin: Right, you know take your place.
Vanessa Raymond: Right somebody else's there to take your spot and therefore as an entrepreneur now I learned so many valuable lessons from really learning to take constructive criticism and implemented right away because it's noticed and and you will see in your results how it's noticed every day.
David Avrin: But the reality is very few decisions are made in a vacuum right they're not deciding whether to choose you.
David Avrin: They have a slate of options and you're one of them, so as we look at delivering on the business side we look at our audience here at the customer experience advantage podcast.
David Avrin: And a lot of entrepreneurs, a lot of small, medium sized businesses as well and in almost every case, there are a number of competitors.
David Avrin: And so, tell me about the work that you do with businesses to help them not just leadership of course it's got to translate to the front lines.
David Avrin: of helping them to recognize in the midst of a very busy day in a challenging work environments supply chain and Labor about showing up and how do we keep that mindset recognizing that our customers and our clients have choices.
Vanessa Raymond: Yes, David, this is my favorite subject matter.
Vanessa Raymond: is really about awareness and assertiveness.
Vanessa Raymond: We need to be really aware of what it is and when it's communication communication communication right, how are we making that customer feel.
Vanessa Raymond: We tend to wonder what is it that what is it that the customer is thinking of us, but you need to flip that around.
Vanessa Raymond: Because if you, you need to flip that around and go Okay, how is it that I make my customer feel, what is it what is their perception, because we think we are projecting one image, but the customer might perceive it completely differently.
Vanessa Raymond: Right, so we really need to put ourselves in the shoes of the customer, we really need to be very intentional with how we communicate now we're talking about the front lines we're talking about customer service we're talking about.
Vanessa Raymond: The people that work with the people right and that is where I get really excited because if you really become aware as a human being, how you are interacting with others and what effect it has on others.
Vanessa Raymond: You have the ability to make the tweaks you need to make as you go along, I talk with my solo printers my entrepreneurs and even my employees and employers about posture and body language, a lot, the power of nonverbal communication is so underestimated.
Vanessa Raymond: What people don't realize, I always talk about the 711 role, have you heard of the.
David Avrin: seven total tell us about.
Vanessa Raymond: it's not as flashy at midnight you guys.
David Avrin: Know don't discount the quality of slushies at midnight.
Vanessa Raymond: Right so just.
Vanessa Raymond: know the 711 rule says that within the first seven seconds of someone stepping into your presence or communicating with you, they have already made 11 decisions about you now, this can go for your business, and this can go for an online sadly it's quicker this.
Vanessa Raymond: movie so in person, you have that seven second period where it's a subconscious decisions that other human beings make about you.
Vanessa Raymond: Online it's a lot quicker it's about three seconds people look at that post or they look at that ad whatever it is, you have out there.
Vanessa Raymond: And there's a split decision going on subconsciously whether this is resonating with them or not, or whether this is leaving a great first impression or not, and the thing about first impressions is should you create and less than.
Vanessa Raymond: desired first impression it takes about eight subsequent interactions to change their mind.
David Avrin: right and it takes a half a second for them to go to somebody.
Vanessa Raymond: else there's.
David Avrin: there's something you said, let me, let me pause for a second because I want to go back to something, you said that that was very profound.
David Avrin: You said at the beginning that we know how we want them to think about us, or we how they think about us, but you said when you flip that over and.
David Avrin: My question for you is how we think about them don't you think that impacts, how we behave.
David Avrin: Only there's only so much you can fake it, but I can we can talk about the importance of of loving your customers or clients, but but it's hard to do but but it's really hard to mask distain it's really hard to mask boredom or.
David Avrin: I hate this this company or I hate this these clients, or I hate my life right how we think about them really impacts, how we behave towards them doesn't it.
Vanessa Raymond: Oh yes, it does, however, I always say, of course, there's a time and a place for everything and there's certain ways to conduct yourself and others.
Vanessa Raymond: We have to, and this brings me back to another topic that i'm very a little controversial about I would say, especially in the health and wellness realm as well, but.
Vanessa Raymond: When you hear people say they talk about authenticity so much we need to be authentic now for me authenticity is a given.
Vanessa Raymond: it's not something you need to try and do you are you you're going to be authentic, no matter what but we're all three dimensional and there's different sides to us as human beings to our businesses to the way we present ourselves and there's a lot to be said for simple etiquette.
Vanessa Raymond: There are rules to how you conduct business and being authentic does not mean that you don't.
Vanessa Raymond: apply those rules.
Vanessa Raymond: Right, the etiquette and the core deal interactions is something that's expected of us in a professional environment and we need to conduct ourselves that way it doesn't mean that we not being authentic.
David Avrin: Right well let's say it again, a little more.
Vanessa Raymond: Clearly, yes.
David Avrin: Because you're having a bad day is not an excuse to be authentic and make sure everybody knows you're having a bad day.
David Avrin: Right right.
David Avrin: Being authentic means being ourselves, but it also means in business being our best.
David Avrin: selves I see so much of young people tonight I love your thoughts on this of this, you know one frustrated i'm having a bad day and right and you're not you're not authenticating me you're not validating me because I don't like.
David Avrin: You know, for our kids or anything else, like dude seriously yeah everybody does, but there are there's a time and a place.
Vanessa Raymond: there's a time and a place when you're on the clock and you're getting.
David Avrin: Paid you you show up with your your best authentic self.
David Avrin: Yes, sure everything does.
Vanessa Raymond: If you do it just making that analogy back to the stage again my biggest fear was my back my.
Vanessa Raymond: understudy stepping in something, because one of my understudy is better than I am, and I lose my job right.
Vanessa Raymond: So you show up I used to get on stage, and you know I know that's Another controversial thing now with coven and everything else that went around but I had to be near debt.
Vanessa Raymond: Not to show up for my performance, I was on a stage, no matter what, because that is my spot, that is my spot on stage I don't want anyone else there's pride.
Vanessa Raymond: And I think that is what it comes back to, we need to have pride in what we do, how we represent ourselves and how we represent our businesses and, yes, being authentic we, we need to be authentic, but that is a given, we are, who we are it's harder to be an authentic than it is to be authentic.
Vanessa Raymond: phenomenal work yes.
Vanessa Raymond: Trying to be something that you're not so when it comes to being validated or feeling.
Vanessa Raymond: By showing up as the best version being your best self and being professional, you will get the validation the validation will come it'll be a repercussion of you, showing up in that way.
Vanessa Raymond: And this is why I get so passionate to about teaching this because you are the initiator and the instigator of what you get back.
David Avrin: Right agreed well, let me play the voice of the the customer, or the the business or the naysayer or devil's advocate.
Vanessa Raymond: Here I am.
David Avrin: Here I am small business owner i've got three locations and and 16 millennials working for me and saying yeah Vanessa that sounds all well and good, how do we get these kids to give a damn.
David Avrin: How do we get them to show up and be their authentic self and be of service to others.
David Avrin: When so often they're more worried about what tick tock they're about to post and I don't mean to be dismissive i'm saying I hear this time and time again.
David Avrin: That we can understand this right, you and I have been in business, for a long time we've been performers right, we have to show up because we're both we both speak as well and we're on stage.
David Avrin: And I had a musical past as well.
David Avrin: And i'm older than you but in our later years we get that better, how do you help business leaders help their employees their staff their frontline workers understand what we have come to understand.
Vanessa Raymond: You are right, the this the landscape is very different now right we're looking.
Vanessa Raymond: At this generation that has that used to instant gratification and that wants to see results right away, I think, for a lot of businesses, it comes back to you and you see this when you look at starbucks and you look at the.
David Avrin: Short, there are companies that do this well.
Vanessa Raymond: But I think.
Vanessa Raymond: In the end it comes back to having some kind of a reward system.
Vanessa Raymond: Especially for this generation.
Vanessa Raymond: I don't you because they respond to that they used to reward systems we get stars at the coffee shop when we buy coffee we get rewards that the grocery store and we buy rewards.
Vanessa Raymond: So that's one way, but also getting them to see when they change their conduct and the way they communicate and the way they share.
Vanessa Raymond: getting them to understand that they can feel the gratification from the pride when they conduct themselves in that way.
Vanessa Raymond: You.
David Avrin: Listen, I agree fully and here's the part that there's what it makes me think is.
David Avrin: it's the old was that old story about the warm fuzzy is in the cold prickly is and the old fable that we probably heard 30 years ago we give somebody warm fuzzy we get a warm fuzzy back.
David Avrin: And it's not about being touchy feely it's that it literally makes their day go better.
David Avrin: i've tried to model that for my kids who are no longer kids then when we treat somebody with respect when we show appreciation when we reach out and have a conversation with somebody who nobody else would have had a conversation with.
David Avrin: It comes back to you tenfold and, if you think your job is boring try being really kind and helpful and of service to those who you work with and work for and who you serve and you'll find that clock moves pretty darn fast.
David Avrin: Because I bet you're having a better day.
Vanessa Raymond: Exactly and that's an everyday interactions to I always tell the story of going to walmart and there's this little old man he's always at the self checkout line right.
Vanessa Raymond: There, looking around and the one day I went in there and I made a mistake, I double charged myself or something and I.
Vanessa Raymond: flagged him down with a big smile, and he came over the world over, and he he fixed it for me and I looked at him in the eyes, and I say thank you so much for helping me, sir.
Vanessa Raymond: And he had a lot like a frown on his face he grabbed me by the shoulders and he said Thank you so much for being so open be so mean.
Vanessa Raymond: And I just recognized how well I did something good, but how that made me feel, and when we start being more aware of those interactions and knowing that you can make the difference for someone else and at the same time doing that gives that gratification of wow I did something good.
Vanessa Raymond: it's rewarding itself and it's energizing and like you say it gets your day to go better.
David Avrin: Right it's it that posture and the posture with all the different meanings of posture right, but how we show up.
David Avrin: I tell a story, sometimes on stage when i'm speaking about my oldest daughter, who is now 28 very successful producing out in West Hollywood.
David Avrin: And, but when she was a little girl, she was my oldest and her mom used to put her in little brains, a little to fix her hair, which now she just laughed and she says dad how could you let me wear that.
David Avrin: She was the cutest most confident little girl so when we walk through the mall.
David Avrin: she'd walk 10 feet in front of us and she'd say hi to everybody hi hi and they would look surprise for a second they go well hi logo.
David Avrin: And all she saw was smiles like her whole life she thought the world was friendly and it changed who she was she was literally the golden retriever of children.
David Avrin: And it molded her because the world that she saw was the reflection of what she put out there, which was bold and friendly and precocious she wasn't the kid who, through fits that was you know this were you know God loves us in with our first kid and.
David Avrin: punishes us, but the second one.
David Avrin: Every right when you think you have it figured out no but I, but I think there's a real connection and, for me it was later years, where I really looked at realize.
David Avrin: The lesson that I got from her is that when she put out that positive when she looked forward to meeting people and she smiled at people.
David Avrin: This isn't crazy pop psychology this is is is real human dynamics, but she grew up thinking, the world was claimed, and it has served her in such a phenomenal way.
Vanessa Raymond: I love that story David, because that is precisely exactly my point and honestly, I have to be honest, I was that kid to literally.
Vanessa Raymond: I thought everybody in the world was just great and good and fabulous and sweet and kind and Nice and you do, you and, of course, you know you do have to come down to earth at some point and go okay.
David Avrin: we're done right, I mean.
David Avrin: let's be clear and not everything is a glamorous job.
Vanessa Raymond: No, no, absolutely not, but that is my point my point is quite often we forget that, if we intentionally put something out there, it will come back to us tenfold.
Vanessa Raymond: The way we conduct ourselves the way we communicate with people, the way we speak to others a little respect and a smile goes a long way friendliness goes a long.
Vanessa Raymond: way you can choose to become defensive, you can choose to argue back or you can choose to be kind and resolve an issue in a kind professional manner, you have the choice, the choice is yours.
David Avrin: yeah and it's and I think, as we create experiences for our customers being of service and having a mindset and cultivating an internal culture.
David Avrin: That celebrates that that's one of those things where those who aren't the grumpy people tend to stand out.
David Avrin: Right and then they self remove because they just don't fit in and there's enough organizations, we can name names of those where they have that culture and they know where the bar is, I want to make a quick shift for a second because I was another business that you're involved in.
David Avrin: With your husband Robert I know him as Bobby.
David Avrin: That that you guys have built this phenomenal Community you're an executive leader with achieve systems and.
David Avrin: Tell us about what that business is because I think what you guys have done a phenomenal job of creating Community for small business owners in that health and wellness and and counseling and service kinds of businesses tell us about that.
Vanessa Raymond: We are so proud of our Community, we have a beautiful beautiful group of people or entrepreneur solo printers.
Vanessa Raymond: What did she system does, and this is what's so cool about a lot of people asked me is this a networking group i'm like no it's not a networking group, but you throw a bunch of entrepreneurs together what's going to happen.
Vanessa Raymond: Right they're gonna network so it's a ci systems is really a support system.
Vanessa Raymond: Robert many, many years ago recognized and and Dave we really work with most entrepreneurs and solo printers now, we have focused on the health and wellness industry for years and years and years.
Vanessa Raymond: But we have also noticed that there's so many out there that need the same kind of help.
Vanessa Raymond: But years ago when Robert started this he really recognized because he was also a musician and he was in the fitness industry but he's also really, really smart businessman.
Vanessa Raymond: And he recognized that, especially in the health and wellness industry, the coaching industries, the service industries.
Vanessa Raymond: A lot of people exchange time for money and they struggled to keep the doors open.
Vanessa Raymond: So he started by creating resources and educating entrepreneurs, on how to incorporate multiple revenue streams into their businesses.
Vanessa Raymond: and use that to help their businesses grow and not work so much in their businesses, but more on their businesses and therefore being able to create wealth.
Vanessa Raymond: And so we have resources we have revenue streams we have systems in place.
Vanessa Raymond: To help entrepreneurs and solo printers grow their businesses, we have vendors, we have live events and we love bringing Community together because we recognize the power of collaboration partnerships referrals, and so we really, really promote a culture of Community and.
David Avrin: Collaborative I think you guys have built a phenomenal Committee, you know there's the Community there's there's more than 40 million small business owners.
David Avrin: And I think what often what time what they really lack in addition to sort of Community and camaraderie which is, which is always important.
David Avrin: But you know they only know what they know and they're not generally in offices with lots of other people who do what they do.
David Avrin: And it's a lonely business, but I think that the biggest challenge is growth, on a personal I mean on a business level knowledge.
David Avrin: Others who do it, I one of the analogies I like to use this thing you know we all have this this this 24 inch cube around our head and everything we know and everything we've done and learned and lost and is is in that cube and everything we don't know is outside of that cube.
David Avrin: Right, so you have created this this phenomenal community of business owners who share wisdom.
David Avrin: That, otherwise we wouldn't get I mean i'm heading out the end of this week we're recording this for the annual convention for the national speakers association.
David Avrin: And it's just really interesting industry because sometimes i'll have i'll have audiences in the thousands, but 99% of my time i'm by myself.
David Avrin: Whether it's it's in my office, I mean, I have a team, but i'm on the road i'm eating that cold chicken dinner by myself or in the hotel room i'm not complaining.
David Avrin: But I travel I do all of this, and so just being immersed in an environment with other brilliant entrepreneurs and solo printers grows everybody's knowledge.
Vanessa Raymond: Absolutely David and listen in this virtual world, there is still so much to be said for that human connection being in a room full of positive energy feeling people being able to have real conversations with.
Vanessa Raymond: real people, and we totally advocate for that, yes, we have the odd virtual event, but we are really about live events and our communities all around the country.
Vanessa Raymond: We have systems in place for them to have their own events, because, as you say, as entrepreneurs solo printers or even business owners life can be very, very lonely up top there or in your in your own business, you feel like.
Vanessa Raymond: doing everything, and you have no support and within our Community also we really cultivate a culture of no competition we want everyone to understand hey look.
Vanessa Raymond: We all are working to be our very best and what we do, but we all have our own way of doing it and there's enough customers for everybody and.
Vanessa Raymond: yeah, the only thing I wanted to mention earlier, too, and we were talking about that.
Vanessa Raymond: Is you know it's also okay someone isn't your ideal customer you don't have to call her someone into being your ideal customer if they are not, because your customers are out there and the ones that resonate with you, and what you do in need what you do they will be attracted to you.
Vanessa Raymond: If you're showing up.
David Avrin: Right well and having a sounding board for the ideas that you have right i'm notorious for thinking every idea I have is the cure for cancer that tastes like chocolate.
David Avrin: And so having others as a good sounding board my wife is the best, but my team here in the office as well is good at being that mirror for those things, and so, for a lot of these solo printers were doing really important work in the world.
David Avrin: Just having being able to have a conversation that two plus two equals 10 is really important, and so real quickly if people want to understand more about achieve systems, how do they how do they look that up what's the website for that.
Vanessa Raymond: They can go to achieve systems pro.com.
David Avrin: To achieve systems plural right, the chief systems pro.
David Avrin: don don Garcia.
Vanessa Raymond: And right there there's a page there, it says why become a member, you can go look at that there's some some short videos you can watch there's some packets their catalogs you can download and look at for everything that we offer.
David Avrin: All the resources and there's good sub communities for different focuses and and professions and expertise as well and it's ridiculously inexpensive.
David Avrin: And that's just that's just me just because i'm familiar with what it is you do on for you, for the work that you do and you're coaching your speaking and working with organizations and professionals, how did they get in touch with you.
Vanessa Raymond: I am at victory in biz.com be ice cream biz.com there you can pretty much access everything that I do and have if you'd like to.
Vanessa Raymond: book a free strategy call which i'd love to offer your listeners today, you can go to the websites dash strategy call it's right there on the website victory in biz.com.
David Avrin: victory in biz COM slash.
David Avrin: Strategy call strategy call okay and we'll put that in the show notes as well, what a delight.
David Avrin: We talk also but doing it for other people to listen in is a great thing i'm a huge fan I just think you, you have a.
David Avrin: I think sometimes the best coaches and the best perspective and feedback come from people who have a rich history.
David Avrin: there's there's too many young people, I heard line Simon says that you know we're in organizations, where people have written more books than they've read.
David Avrin: And so I think those of us who who've had a rich history and I love your history and you've been through so many aspects of it, I think your counsel is strong it's wise it's it's comes from a place of love and I know I sound like i'm just finding over you but i'm just such a big.
fan.
David Avrin: of you and Robert both thanks for being with us here today um hang on because you and I will talk, on the other side.
David Avrin: Just reminder for everybody, as I grabbed this on the side you can pick up a copy of my new book.
David Avrin: The morning huddle powerful customer experience conversations to wake you up and shake you up and win more business.
David Avrin: Be sure to click to like this podcast leave a comment that's really important as well, even if it's just a couple of words just saying how delightful Vanessa was because she was.
David Avrin: reiterate a point that you heard, and of course you can look up all my past episodes as well, we are on all of the podcast platforms for audio and the video on my website.
David Avrin: and on YouTube as well, you can learn more about my keynote speaking and my consulting at David average COM thanks for thanks for tuning in customer experience manager podcast leave a comment subscribe, be sure to subscribe big thanks to Vanessa Raymond i'm David ever be good.